Carlos Whittaker

Jun08

Pastor Creflo Dollar Got Arrested And All He Got Was This Lousy Mugshot #POTSC

Posted by loswhit in Authenticity,Culture

So Creflo Dollar got arrested this morning.
He choked his daughter…
GASP.
He has that “I know this is gonna be all over twitter” look on his face.
You know the CRAY thing?
I am JUST as guilty as homeboy.
I may not have choked my daughter but I have done my share of harm to others.
I just didn’t get arrested for it.

His shiny suits nor his sad mugshot matter to God Almighty.
He is already forgiven.
And so are you.
So let’s pray for his daughter, pray for his church, pray for his spirit…
Then all together, welcome Creflo Dollar to the People of the Second Chance.
Welcome Creflo.
There is a seat next to me at the meetings…
Los

Matthew Irvine

Thank you Carlos, for making me think from His perspective. You are a blessing.

http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com loswhit

Thanks Matthew for thinking…

liz

I understand what you’re saying Los but respectfully, no it’s not the same. You are not speaking as a shepherd in whom one’s spirituality is entrusted. I used to watch him while getting ready for church. That was until about a month ago. He told his congregation that they were at his church for him & his vision. That their way to obey & follow God was to do whatever he wanted with his church. That was the last time we watched. We then knew something was terribly wrong. So sad.

http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com loswhit

I see where you are coming from.
Truthfully.
But Grace is the same.
For someone who says the church is for them.
For the prostitute.
For the pastor.
His sin may be louder…but it’s no less dark.

liz

True but the pastors sins hurt possibly hundreds or thousands. The calling is to fearful to be taken lightly.

MM

Every one person has their own experience. Hurting one or hurting many -it is the same hurt for the one. But the one is alone, the many have the others. Only God can judge -and we are not God -we can only work through him. Please, everyone deserves a second chance.

MM

Everyone deserves a second chance.
C SANCHES

I HAVE WATCHED DR. DOLLAR EVERY SUNDAY AND COLLECT HIS MP3 SERMONS. IN NONE DID HE SAY THAT HIS CONGREGATION WAS THERE FOR HIM. HE SAID THE OPPOSITE, THAT THEY DONT COME FOR HIM BUT FOR GOD. I DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU HEARD BUT I BELIEVE YOU MISUNDERSTOOD SOME PHRASE HE SPOKE SOME HOW. NONE THE LESS HE IS ONLY HUMAN AND FAMILIES WITH TEENS WILL ALWAYS HAVE SOME THING PERCEIVED UNJUST BY A TEEN’S EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENTS TO PEER PRESSURE. HIS FAMILY NEEDS PRAYER AS DO WE ALL NONE OF US ARE PERFECT AND EVEN NOW AS WE PRACTICE ARE CHRISTIAN VALUES WE ARE PRONE TO FALL SHORT AS WE WRITE ABOUT OTHERS. HAVE A BLESSED DAY.

http://@michaelwhittle Michael Whittle

He’ll get hit second chance alright…. he can afford it! (Sorry, I just had to!)

Thanks for this post, just saw the story and this put my judgement in check real fast. Much appreciated.

http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com loswhit

That was funny

http://www.AKStafford.blogspot.com Todd

You show a lot of class with this post.

http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com loswhit

Thanks Todd. Thanks

Tim

Carlos,

While I agree that there is room at the meeting for those that are second chancers. And there is a second chance for this man. I am skeptical about the second chance theology as much as I am skeptical about the prosperity Gospel.

We tend to not differentiate immediate sin and sin that has been repented for in these POTSC meetings.

We need a “HEY, me too” compassion when people like this sin. We also must also dangle before them, “You too.”

I’ll wait until some press release to see how Creflo responds to this. But judging (Biblical judging) by his ministry, his rhetoric, and the way he has presented the Gospel I’m looking for some tossed aside sheep costume more than I am a confession at a POTSC meeting.

I suspect the former and pray/hope for the latter.

MM

Somewhere I read “Forgiveness has not timetable”. I think it is a process and perhaps we should consider that it may not be our place to criticize but it is our place to offer grace. Thank you for the offer!

http://Twitter.com/brianayers Brian

Good perspective. Sadly, it’s not my first reaction.
http://www.BrianCrum.com Brian C.

Never a bad thing to be reminded that we’re ALL People of the Second Chance.

Thank you for this encouraging and humbling post, Los. It’s right at the perfect time for me too; imagine that.
http://mimiandbutterbean.blogspot.com shayne

I always think the worst first. I’ll admit to that. But I think too, in this case, we may need to wait and see what the whole story is.

There’s always two sides…and then somewhere in the middle is the truth. Praying for this family and this church.
JP

Oddly enough, when I saw the headline I felt saddened because I know the response people are going to give. He may be a pastor and all, but (as think of another blog I read, nakedpastor.com) he is human underneath it all, just like the rest of us. Maybe I’m just a big softie but I am disheartened at how quickly people judge pastors and the like. I haven’t had dinner with the man and I don’t know his struggles so judging is the last thing on my agenda. Kind of like how pastor Furtick set an amazing example of forgiveness, grace, and maturity by having Ted Haggerd and his wife speak at Elevation. Thanks Los. Thanks for having the guts to forgive when it’s so easy to condemn.
http://apilgrimhere.wordpress.com A Pilgrim Here

Well said, my brother in Christ. I join you in lifting this up in prayer.
http://www.daleaceron.com Dale

I think this whole situation needs prayers not stones…

When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” (John 8:7 NIV)
Jess

once I saw that he was arrested bc he “choked” his TEENAGE daughter, and that the arrest occurred at 2am, I start to understand. Being the mother of a teenage daughter who almost got choked several times during her “difficult” season, I can see where emotions can get carried away. Teenagers can make you go there!

Lee

I’m sorry, but I don’t care how “difficult” teenagers (or anyone else is) are; CHOKING is NEVER ok. What I “start to understand” when I see that the victim is a teenage daughter and that it happened in the wee hours is that something is terribly broken here, and this man was likely perpetuating some brokenness of which he himself was a victim, but that does not excuse it. I believe in second chances and forgiveness, but we do not have to tolerate and “accept” the sin. We lament and abhor the sinful nature that causes this kind of physical abuse, in all too many homes.

Jess

my tongue in cheek reference to “Choking” a teenager was just that- tongue in cheek. Of course I would never literally choke my child. My point is that people are quick to jump to conclusions and make rush judgements. when you hear details, the situation may have been little more than a parent dealing with an unruly teenager. I think we need more details before we even can say anyone needs a “second chance” or “forgiveness”. People are arrested for misunderstandings all the time. Let’s not rush to judgement.

kkwild

as an individual who works daily in the field of domestic violence, I would urge you to look into the implications of choking. There is a matter much deeper then an unruly teenager, I can guarantee that!

liz

Yes…KKwild There is a real family problem. And a dangerous one. Anger never helps anyone

Gina

I am sorry, you don’t know the full story. 2am and supposedly his daughter was wanting to go out to a party and she struck him! If the father of the 13 year old girl who was caught on video performing fellatio on video to 3 boys in Georgia a few years ago would have caught her before she got maybe she would not have been victimized. Let’s wait and learn the true story and see if it even was really a choke and not just a knee jerk reaction from someone hitting him!

liz

Don’t hit a child or a woman…EVER!

MM

I think Jess’ word may have been out of context. I don’t have any children but I understood what she was saying. I’ll cover a free round of second chances for all!

Pingback: A Good Response to Creflo Dollar’s Arrest « gavin brown
MCD

Last year, my brother was arrested for a crime he didn’t commit, but it still doesn’t matter. We come from a small town, and he was publicly hung for it. People still ignore our family, church members won’t look him in the eye – people that used to be close family friends.

I live in Nashville & he’s still there – and I hate it. He can’t get a job. Nobody will hire him. I’m so helpless.

Because of this, I don’t know much about my faith anymore, but reading this sort of thing helps a little. A headline doesn’t tell the whole story. Someone’s history doesn’t equal their present. And while this story could be 100% true, he still deserves grace. Guilty or innocent, it isn’t our job to pass judgment.

Not everybody is guilty. My brother wasn’t. We’re all just trying to make it in this mess of a world.

JP

Amen to that. I sometimes think that faith is just something we have to figure out or experience. I can hear something all day and not care but when we hit bottom, we get our change in perspective. I feel for your brother and you and I will send a prayer your way. Me and my wife have spoken about this type of thing happening to accused rapists. Once they are accused, the verdict is useless because now they are labeled for life, and society should be ashamed of that. “Keeping the faith” in your situation is tough. But keep talking to God, he hears ya.
http://twitter.com/ashleyasmith Ashley Smith

THIS: A headline doesn’t tell the whole story. Someone’s history doesn’t equal their present.

YES.

liz

Years of wonderful work for the savior can be wiped out in no self-control

http://twitter.com/ashleyasmith Ashley Smith

But this is why I believe our Savior is so merciful and loving- He gives grace. That’s why he suffered, with perfect love.

Our sin is covered by His blood. I do not believe that can be wiped out…
Who am I to determine salvation?

MCD

Thank you, Ashley & JP – your responses helped me feel loved when I am so down right now.

Liz, You were not there. Maybe this is entirely true, maybe it wasn’t. Either way, it’s not your place to pass any judgment. Don’t you see that? You made a snap judgment to automatically believe whatever you read or are told about this situation. Trust me – TRUST ME, not every headline holds the truth.

Now, I wasn’t talking about this man’s situation – I don’t downplay that he’s been arrested for a very serious accusation. I was discussing more of the situation of making a snap judgment. It is my desire that people could wait before deciding the guilt of someone based solely on a 6 word headline on an Internet article.
MM

Ashley!! “Who am I to determine salvation” Thank yu for this! My new Mantra!!!

http://iChilly.com Chilly

Forgiveness. Grace. Mercy.
– tough words to wrap our minds around when a child is abused.

Praying for ALL involved in this.

And, yeah, I’ve definitely needed LOTS of ‘second chances’ …
kimberly cunningham

Thank- God for second chances, and third ones and fourth ones. No one on this planet is perfect and that includes a pastor, he messed up and??? We all mess up in one way shape or form. My daughter has taken me there once or twice, but I didn’t take it the point of putting my hands on her, I exploded at her, no better than what he did. Now he has to be chastised and take it like God directs us to. God wants us to be corrected when we mess up. This is a teaching opportunity for him. How he bounces back from this is key. Knowing how to get up when you fall down will help keep you going. He can use this to show that he had to be corrected and show how he does it. No one is in fallable and that is the beauty of humans, we mess up and can learn from it and do better next time. This is a turning point for him and his daughter’s relationship, the old way wasn’t working. Anyway, God has already forgiven him and He is in the process of correcting him now. To he who is given much, much is expected and when he messes up…..much junk is talked. Get up pastor, fix it, brush it off and keep going.
http://gotone,butnotpertinenttothispage... Jason

Who is Carlos?
Hey Carlo, I’ve always enjoyed your perspectives, mostly because they fly in the face of popular concensus…and even more so because they line up with how I usually feel about spiritual things.
I was saddened and surprised to see this about Creflo.
He got caught…and the rest of us didn’t …on numerous occasions.
However, I have always believed that if you see something small going on in someone’s life that is inconsistent with the Word, then that’s usually just the tip of the iceberg.
Thankfully God can and will cleanse us…from the small obvious things, to the large, scary, hidden things if we will just confess.
ALSO, we need to remember that we shall be judged in the same way that we judge. We don’t know Creflo, we don’t know the situation, and we certainly don’t know Jesus if we allow ourselves to fall into condemning others in such circumstances.
“Creflo, I forgive you for what you did…and Jesus will too.”
I pray that he puts it in God’s hands…for his yoke is easy and his burden is light.
Carlo, thanks for your insight…and thank you Jesus for lifting me out of my pit of stupidity regularly.
Jason

Gina

Spare the rod, spoil the child! I am sorry, if she were trying to sneak out at 2am and she hit him, he should have grabbed her. I am certain it was an emotionally charged situation.

http://www.oasishorns.com James

This might be the only story I read that takes this approach, so I’m glad I read this first. Thanks Carlos.

http://twitter.com/ashleyasmith Ashley Smith

AGREED.

David

I love “POTSC” people! You guys are awesome! Thanks for sharing the love =)

http://twitter.com/ashleyasmith Ashley Smith

I love People of the Second Chance because everyone belongs.

kkwild

Carlos, this is much heavier issue then most people seem to understand. do you know that 3 women a day die for domestic/family violence in the US? that stat is higher now but we don’t have data to back it yet. also 1:4 women in the US will experience some form of domestic violence in their life.
I completely agree that this man deserves forgiveness and grace, a second chance, but I think he needs help, serious help.
I think we all need to do ourselves a favor and educate ourselves a little bit more on DV and see what is going on out beyond our own world…
here’s a link that has a little info…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CU20YdBiMo&feature=g-upl

Thanks for reading!

liz

Thanks again KKwild for taking this seriously. This girl has been beaten up by her daddy & her pastor. This is life long damage & sets up a pattern.
JP

Los never said he didn’t need help. Los never said this wasn’t something to be taken lightly. Quit reading into the lines not written.

KKwild

JP, I am not reading into lines not written, I am trying to bring awareness. I would never presume to say Carlos doesn’t think that Pastor Dollar needs help or that he thinks this is a light subject. I don’t know how much Carlos knows about the cycle of violence nor do I know how much anyone reading this knows. I just hope that we all would want to learn more about it after reading a story like this. You don’t need to defend Carlos, this post was to provide information not to tear him or his words down. I am sorry it seems as though it may have offended you.

Angie

These comments are messed up in so many ways. People sticking up for person who choked his daughter just because he’s a pastor. People judging a person who choked his daughter just because he’s a pastor.

Jesus save us from ourselves. It’s like we’ve never met you.

liz

He’s judged because he’s a large man who hit a little girl, he’s judged because he’s supposed to be a protective dad, he’s judged because he’s a shepherd & shepherds DON’T hurt the sheep. Even their own sheep that bear his name. Pray that none of this gets brushed off & he gets right back to ministry…that would shame his holy calling

http://www.betterisonedayinyourcourts.wordpress.com Shayne

Liz,

I’ve read a lot of your comments down through here. It sounds like this is a personal issue for you and that there may still need to be some healing in your life.

The reason I say this is because in your comments you have tried and condemned this man for something that you absolutely were not a witness to.

Meaning…you have no true idea what happened. I understand where you’re coming from as far as violence against women…but the people who perpetrate that violence, still deserve a second chance.

Hoping you get some peace about this. I understand what it’s like to read a headline and take it so much to heart. Don’t let it take you down. Pray and release it.

http://thejoshuacollective.com Scott Savage

I come at this with mixed feelings. My primary identity is a follower of Jesus who happens to be a pastor. I’ve been on the receiving end of second chances and undeserved grace and mercy. So I resonate with that Gospel message deep in my soul.
That’s not the end though. I’m married to a woman who prosecutes family violence cases everyday. I know the stories she brings home every week. The stats we’ve read together. By the time the cops are called and charges are pressed, on average you’re at the 5th-7th incident of domestic abuse. The reality that abusers in overwhelming numbers go on to abuse. Victims recant everyday out of fear, putting themselves in harms way because they don’t know how else to live. Fear reigns in homes where abuse continues.
As a pastor and a prosecutor’s husband, I’m all over the place on this one.
Thanks Carlos for a space to share with authenticity.

KKwild

Scott thank you for sharing. I work hands on in the field of domestic violence with the women and children. I too have mixed feelings, when you daily see women and children who have been abused and the impact it has made on their lives you can’t help but want justice. However knowing how violence works I can’t help but feel for the perpetrator as well. They must have seen or experienced something in their own lives that has lead them to deal with things the way they are. This doesn’t give them an excuse but it does help me in think how I can extend grace to them.

Deb White

Just because he is a man of God, doesn’t make him perfect. Just forgiven. No it’s not right what he did, but we are not the judge. If we judge him, we will be judged the same!!

liz

it’s not right what he did BUT…it’s criminal. He was arrested. Perhaps his daughter will deny it all & it will be like it never happened

MM

Liz, I’m going to pray for you ok? I am going to pray for grace and peace for you. Hate the sin, love the sinner. From my friend in Grace Ashley: Who am I to determine salvation? Peace be with you my friend Liz. May God hold you sooooo tight and close that your hurt just pops out!

C.A.Writer

Yes to grace, but also we must think about the child involved. You can forgive him for doing wrong, but that does not mean he should be allowed to keep on beating the child.

I am not speaking as someone detached from this stuff. I was mentally, verbally, and physically abused throughout my childhood. When I got big enough to fight back I did. While all has been forgiven, I am making sure those people cannot do the same to my own children.

Forgiveness does not mean we do not allow ourselves to grow in wisdom.
yankeegospelgirl

“You are already forgiven.”

No, no he’s not. Not necessarily anyway. If we reject the blood, we will taste the wrath of God. We don’t know if he has claimed that forgiveness.

MM

Perhaps we should consider that it may not be our place to “know if he has claimed that forgiveness” Everyone deserves a second chance. Lets all be Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts of Grace! Always be prepared to give grace!

http://xdisciple.blogspot.com xdisciple

I’m showing this to my Mom! Them all crooks! In other news, Christianity was a Roman Invention: http://xdisciple.blogspot.ca/2012/04/christianity-was-roman-invention.html
And the Popes are merely Actors and one of them loved football: http://xdisciple.blogspot.ca/2012/06/football-as-religion-tom-landry-was.html
James Turk

Thanks for the informative blog. I was thinking about this subject just yesterday. I am studing Turkish, so very interesting ! I will check back regularly. Keep up the good work!