Carlos Whittaker

Jun11

BE the church and you won’t have to invite them to church…

Posted by loswhit in My Church

Yesterday dozens, hundreds, even thousands of people showed up at our churches all around the world.
They sat in rows and and watched and listened as we did the best we can in trying to convince them that Jesus is the TRUTH.
We tried to convince them in different ways.
We tried to convince them through talking to them.
We tried to convince them through singing at them.
We tried to convince them through making them watch our awesome videos.
And then this morning we begin thinking about next Sunday.
And how to talk, sing, and show them Jesus again.
All of this is fantastic.
But I hardly believe that someone is going to become a disciple of Christ because of what we pull off on Sundays.
I’m thinking it is going to take Monday through Saturday as well.
So let’s stop acting like Sunday is game day.
Sunday is an important day.
But I think Wednesday and Thursday are just as important…if not more important.
BE the church and you won’t have to invite them to church.
Los

http://armansheffey.com ArmanSheffey

That is so true! We spend 6 days in the world and 1 day in church. Be the Gospel.

http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com loswhit

Amen

Ray LeTellier

It’s kind of sad that we need that reminder–but THANK-YOU !!

http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com loswhit

Yup!

Doug

So, so, so, so agree with this. Sometimes, I think we forget that a Sunday gathering should be the celebration of what the church has done all week. Instead, so many look at as salve for wounds and a place to hide from the world and all the hurt. It should be that too. But not JUST that.

http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com loswhit

Like

http://mimiandbutterbean.blogspot.com shayne

I think how laughable it is that we think because we’ve spent the sum total of possibly one hour each Sunday singing at the top of our lungs and hands outstretched…that we’ve really worshipped God.

I don’t know about you, but worship in the Bible is bloody and messy and hard work and stinky, and has little to do with music or singing. But it does have a lot to do with words we don’t like to talk about like submission, dying to self, surrender, and obedience.

Which I’m pretty sure are disciplines that require effort 24/7. So yeah, Sunday to Sunday and all the days in between…just as important.

http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com loswhit

Just as important.

http://www.purecommunity.org/about John Glisson

Sunday isn’t gameday, it’s the after-party – when we get to praise God with all of our friends for what He has done Mon. thru Sat., and refocus for the next leg of the race that starts when we walk back out into the world. Maybe we should end our services with a scrum (link arms, swing back and forth and holler like crazy people).

http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com loswhit

The after party. I love this John!
Niki Boggs

Like!!

Kim

I grew up in a denomination that emphasized High Attendance Sunday, Bring A Friend To Church Day, etc. As a result, I though that If I could just get someone in the door, surely God or at least the pastor could do the rest. If that person wouldn’t come, I was at a loss as to what to do with them. I was well into my adulthood before I understood that the whole thing was backwards. Sometimes I think the entire church culture has it wrong because of all the energy and resources that go into building and maintaining churches structures and systems. But I choose to work in it 24/7, so I’m not completely sure about that. I do think about it a lot, though.

http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com loswhit

Thanks for this Kim. I remember those days as well

http://myspace.com/opendoerrmusic Aaron

Love this! Although, we’re learning it still takes both.

Over the past year, we’ve made a deliberate, consistent effort to de-emphasize Sunday. We have rearranged our calendars to spend less time prepping for a service and more time serving in relationship with people. Less time prepping for teaching/singing and more time discipling, loving caring for the community around us that doesn’t go to church.

Our city’s food pantry is now housed in our basement. We have a Severe Weather Shelter being built out. We give away our Worship Center to local schools for recitals and graduations. Several of our pastors (including our Lead Pastor) are lunch buddies with at risk kids at the elementary school down the street.

And…people are leaving our church to the more hip ones in town with the pastor that wrote a book and the worship band that has a CD. We’re more missional and biblical as a church than ever and yet people are more disconnected to what we’re doing because our Sundays have become so de-emphasized.

Now we’re trying to figure out how to remain biblical and missional, but create an experience on Sunday that connects people to that missional life of the church that happens between the Sundays.

We need both. I wish it weren’t true. But we do.

http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com loswhit

I agree and slightly disagree.
I don’t necessarily think we need both if the work of Christ’s disciples is complete.
I know large gatherings are important, but I also think that they are not Necessary.
Especially since we know they cannot happen all over the world.
Jeremy

Just because people who want to be entertained are leaving, doesn’t mean you’re doing it wrong.

Colin

We need to see people as God sees people…as sheep. Sheep are stupid, stubborn, and helpless, and yes I am a sheep and so are you. Most of the little lambs are born “in the field” not in the barn. The church building, where we put on our productions every Sunday are nothing but fancy barns, yes some sheep are birthed in that big fancy barn but most are not. We as the church need to be ready to lead people(sheep)out in the field before we get to the barn. The barn is the place for the shepherd to look over the flock and check them out and heal or bind up any wounds that might have taken place out in the field. In other words our weekend meetings should be for believers and the equipping thereof. Yes, an invitation should be offered but really the Sunday meeting is for the building up of the saints.

This “Game Day” “Superbowl Sunday” mindset is the byproduct of the failed “Seeker Sensitive” philosophy. When the church starts a service off with, “In the Air Tonight”or “Rock and Roll” something is out of wack in fact it’s wiggity wack. I love both of those songs by themselves but what are there doing on a worship list if the “church” is supposed to be leading Mon-Sat? Why are we concerned about “attracting” seekers and making them feel comfortable in our services?

http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com loswhit

Never heard this analogy. Like it.

Elaine & João

That’s true!
Jessy

i get the “be a christian everyday of the week” overall message you’re making here. i can stand by that.

however, it concerns me that you think our churches need to “convince” people that jesus is the truth. our jobs isn’t to convince people of the truth. we give tell them what the bible says and let god do the rest. you must use the holy scriptures to teach them ? the holy spirit using the sword to penetrate their heart and to show them what it truly means to be a sinner.

if pastors would stop supplementing their preaching with this entertaining spice to help people stay with them, and just focus on giving them sound biblical doctrine we would have more disciples of christ.

when you appeal to people to come to christ with entertainment, you’re giving them what their flesh wants, not what their spirit needs. does our gospel presentation make men excited about what god can do for them on this earth, or about whom god is?

Doug

What is “sound biblical doctrine?” That seems open to the interpretation to whatever person, local gathering, or denomination. I am not saying that we cannot all look at what we see revealed about God in and through the bible and agree that there are some rather straighforward action steps that we could all agree on – even if we just camped out on the Shema, and the one Jesus said is like it “Love your neighbor as yourself” for a very long time – but I think language like “sound biblical doctrine” is an easy open-ended term to throw, which doesn’t really advance the conversation.

Jessy

I guess what I was trying to say is that I think that the church in America today is so obsessed with being practical, relevant, helpful, successful, and well-liked that it nearly mirrors the world itself. Aside from the packaging, there is nothing that cannot be found in most churches today that could not be satisfied by any number of secular programs and self-help groups. Instead of shepherds feeding the sheep, the church has clowns entertaining the goats.

Sunday morning in America is the greatest hour of idolatry in the whole week. Why? Because most people who are even worshiping God, are worshiping a God they don’t know. They’re worshiping a god that looks more like Santa Claus than the God of Scripture. They’re worshiping a god that is a figment of their own imagination. They created a god in their own likeness and they worship the god they’ve made.

Many of the pulpiteers of the past fifty years acted as though the first and last object of their calling was the salvation of souls, everything being made to bend to that aim. In consequence, the feeding of the sheep, the maintaining of a Scriptural discipline in the church, and the inculcation of practical piety, was crowded out; and only too often all sorts of worldly devices and fleshly methods were employed under the plea that the end justified the means; and thus the churches were filled with unregenerate members.

In reality, such men defeated their own aim. The hard heart must be ploughed and harrowed before it can be receptive to the gospel seed. Doctrinal instruction must be given on the character of God, the requirements of His Law, the nature and heinousness of sin, if a foundation is to be laid for true evangelism. It is useless to preach Christ unto souls until they see and feel their desperate need of Him.

Of all the preaching in the world, the worst preaching is that which tends to make the hearers laugh, or to move their minds with tickling levity and affect them as stage plays used to, instead of affecting them with a holy reverence for the name of God.

Doug

So glad you replied. I can’t find anything there to disagree with.

http://www.impactproductionsllc.com Ron

Hey Jessy! I totally understand where you are coming from, however, what about people who won’t ever come to a church building to hear “sound doctrine”? Also, as one who didn’t grow up in church and came to Christ as a teenager, let me tell you that presentation means a lot in a church. Many people that just sit in church buildings usually make the process of seeking Christ difficult by requiring people to jump through hoops BEFORE the word is even taught.

We are the body of Christ and by being his body we are his hands, feet, and eyes. We are what people see, hear, and touch on a consistent basis. This is something that a church building full of people can’t do.

Jessy

Hi Ron!

To answer your first question, we are to be fishers of men and go out to be the salt of the world. Hence, why I said I agree with this post, that we must work 7 days a week on this whole Christian thing. Not just on Sundays. So I assume that when you say, “people who won’t ever come to a church building” that you are talking about our lives doing the witnessing. And to that, we are on the same page. However, we who preach the gospel must not think of ourselves as public relations agents sent to establish good will between Christ and the world. We must not imagine ourselves commissioned to make Christ acceptable to big business, the press, the world of sports or modern education. We are not diplomats but prophets, and our message is not a compromise but an ultimatum.

The common mantra attributed to St. Francis of Assissi-who, by the way, never said these words-”Preach the gospel; if necessary, use words.” Well, that’s completely unbiblical as Romans 10 makes it clear that the gospel is a spoken message. No unbeliever can see Jesus in you. Let me say that again: no unbeliever can see Jesus in you.

Why? Because they are dead in their sins, according to Ephesians 2, and they are blind. They are spiritually blind, according to 1 Cor. 2:14… They’re dead in their trespasses and sins and they are spiritually blind. Without the proclamation of the gospel, they cannot see Jesus in you.

I’m not sure what you mean by “usually make the process of seeking Christ difficult by requiring people to jump through hoops BEFORE the word is even taught.” What are these hoops? Do you mean hymns/prayer/tithes/benediction?

“This is something that a church building full of people can’t do.” So how do you explain the first church? “So Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. For a whole year they met with the church and taught a great many people. And in Antioch the disciples were first called Christians.” [Acts 11:25-26] Did the first church have fog machines and banners spreading their message? No. It was a “building full of people”. The early Church was married to poverty, prisons and persecutions. Today, the church is married to prosperity, personality, and popularity.

In regards to, “presentation means a lot in a church”….If you live in and love sensual pleasures more than you love God, no matter what you profess, you are dead, spiritually dead, while you live, and therefore you are an enemy of God and a stranger to grace and the holy ways of the Lord.

Why do you feel the need to dress up the gospel in a dramatic video or a pop song? I personally feel when people try to make the word seem more “exciting” or “appealing” to crowds it shows that they don’t think that God’s own word is enough, so they have to “spice” it up in order for anyone to listen to it. God doesn’t need our help to make his word appealing.

“Entertainment is the devil’s substitute for joy. The more joy you have in the Lord the less entertainment you need…when you can say, ‘Thou, O Christ, art all I want.’” – Leonard Ravenhill

Also, to be clear…I’m only 26. I understand the want for a cool church with lattes, a rock band, and a preacher who wears torn jeans. I used to go to one of those churches. But I realized that most churches of this regard [and I'm not saying all of them] share an avoidance of the difficult things of Scripture – of sinfulness and hell and God’s notable severity. It is Idolatrous and cowardly. If a person who teaches the Scriptures is afraid to explain to you the severity of God, they have betrayed you and they love their ego more than they love you.

http://www.impactproductionsllc.com Ron

Excellent reply Jessy! I believe that we agree for the most part on everything. I’ll try to answer some of the points that you raised.

“…Romans 10 makes it clear that the gospel is a spoken message. No unbeliever can see Jesus in you. Let me say that again: no unbeliever can see Jesus in you.”

If this is true, then does this negate what Jesus said in John 13:33-36 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By THIS everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love ONE ANOTHER.” (Emphasis added) If no unbeliever can see/sense Jesus in us, how will they know that we are his disciples? Like I said before, I didn’t grow up in church and had no prior experience with church and “Christians” but I knew it was something different about many that I met and I saw Jesus in them even though I hadn’t learned the Gospel yet.

“Did the first church have fog machines and banners spreading their message? No. It was a “building full of people”.”

That was an excellent scripture reference and I think when we see the word church in the Bible we think that it was like our modern day church, however, the “church” was the group of people that met in homes and other places outside a formal building with a steeple and more often than not they were very small groups of people.

My question is this: Did the early church have printed Bibles, air conditioning, light bulbs and projectors? Technology changes over time and the things we use are amoral. Think about it…the catholic church would have a fit about most things that take place in a protestant church.

“In regards to, “presentation means a lot in a church”….If you live in and love sensual pleasures more than you love God, no matter what you profess, you are dead”

I was referring to the way that we deliver a message to someone. If someone is ALWAYS screaming and shouting a message at me, I tune them out period. If you saw a parent ALWAYS screaming at their kids, I do believe that you would have a problem with it regardless of if the parent is trying to teach the child discipline. I grew from messages where the speaker was blunt and engaging without resulting to attacking me.

“Why do you feel the need to dress up the gospel in a dramatic video or a pop song?”

I never said that I felt the need to dress up the gospel with a dramatic video, however, I don’t see anything wrong with using a video to help communicate the gospel no more than a speaker using an iPad to preach the message.

“Also, to be clear…I’m only 26. I understand the want for a cool church with lattes, a rock band, and a preacher who wears torn jeans. I used to go to one of those churches.”

This is cool! Yeah, I’m only 30 and I’m not really looking for a “cool” church. Rather than look for a church I started looking for a group of believers that enjoy hearing the word of God preached with conviction and this led me to my current church.

If a person who teaches the Scriptures is afraid to explain to you the severity of God, they have betrayed you and they love their ego more than they love you.

I totally agree!!!

http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com loswhit

Agree and disagree.

Butch

Los
It seems so simple doesn’t it?
Yet we have now allowed ourselves to believe that if we don’t do the “big show” we some how become irrelevant to today’s culture.
It raises a couple of questions:
Who is the ” show” really for anyway?
Have we allowed ourselves to be sucked down this road and become so distracted by it , that we have lost focus on what Jesus really called us to?
We are all called to make disciples not entertain the masses.
Love your heart
Butch
Mike

These conversations always seem to come down to an either/or argument. Why can’t it be both/and?

You can have an “attractional” model for a Sunday while still serving the community and discipling people throughout the week.

You can have a theologically rich and deep teaching on a Sunday and have interest-based small groups during the week that make for an easy connection point for people.

You can do Sunday school and then a “seeker service” if you want.

We love limiting God’s work to our preconceived notions of “how it should be.” But He won’t be limited. He is infinitely creative and will use a variety of avenues to reveal Himself to different people.

I agree that we can focus too much on adding things to a Sunday to make a great experience, but on the other side of the coin are we removing things that could put people off? We’re just as responsible (probably more) to remove hurdles from people’s path. Hurdles that are more often about a sense of tradition or narrow thinking than they are about Biblical truth or the work of the Spirit.

I’m weary of the arguments that this way or that way is better. I think Los hit the nail on the head: It takes a whole week. But what your church does within that week is all about who and where God has called you to reach. Let’s worry less about the ways you think a church shouldn’t be and worry about the way YOUR church is. Be THE church with your church.